No Recording Here - Just a News Article..

[edtraveller]

Hope he wasn't one of ours :p

http://www.twincities.com/ci_22026961/h ... -paul-gets

[Broggie]

They experienced extreme stress and strain....yeah right

[sc0tt-uk]

Ouch, busted! Important lessons to learn here peeps - stay on the right side of the door, and use clean devices.

[12rudeboy34]

Only 2 recordings lol, woonded!

[Audio]

why he slipped it INSIDE the room and not stay outside?!

[JohnGypsy]

Interesting stuff. Very curious about how he was charged - it appears that MN has a very specific law for this ("interference with privacy"). Specifically, here is what he appears to have violated:


"(d) A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor who:

(1) surreptitiously installs or uses any device for observing, photographing, recording, amplifying, or broadcasting sounds or events through the window or other aperture of a sleeping room in a hotel, as defined in section 327.70, subdivision 3, a tanning booth, or other place where a reasonable person would have an expectation of privacy and has exposed or is likely to expose their intimate parts, as defined in section 609.341, subdivision 5, or the clothing covering the immediate area of the intimate parts; and

(2) does so with intent to intrude upon or interfere with the privacy of the occupant."

Now, I find a few things interesting:

1. It appears that the law was originally written to prevent "Peeping Toms" that looked into through a window or some "other aperture." The fact that it is a place where people would be "likely to expose their intimate parts" again seems to confirm this - that they were mainly referring to the VISUAL side of things. My guess is the "sounds" was added later.

2. Note that an "aperture" is generally defined as something through which LIGHT travels. Again, this was written to prevent people from looking and just happens to be worded poorly enough to include sounds.

3. I am very curious if the device extended INTO the room at all. He slipped it "under the door" - but that could just mean that he set it down outside and barely let it under. If it never entered their room, then I would question if he ever entered their "property."

My GUESS is that it wasn't worth the legal battle. No one wants to be the guy in the press trying to argue in court that if you could hear them OUTSIDE the door (which I'm guess was the case), then they had no real "expectation of privacy."

Basically, the made him an offer to drop the two "gross misdemeanors" down to just one normal misdemeanor if he would plead guilty - so that is what he did.

I think if someone really wanted to fight this one, they'd have a good chance. Provided that he didn't actually place the recorder into their room.

In my opinion, if you have sex loud enough in a hotel to be heard in the hallway itself, then you've given up any real legal expectation of privacy. It's just that no one wants to be that court case and argue it.

[LeStanf]

Hi JG,

I'm inclined to agree with you, a good lawyer probably would have saved the guy. I wasn't aware that MN had a specific law about this so thanks for the research.

I don't believe the microphone outside the door or window or through the wall is illegal. My real worry about getting caught is the bad publicity that might result. What would my close family or employers think? And I certainly wouldn't want to be black listed by one of the major hotel chains. So I'm extremely careful about how and when I listen. I advise others to be the same.

A few weeks ago I was heading to my room on tippytoes, as I always do, when I rounded the corner to see a bloke with his ear and phone against the door of a room. When he saw me he looked absolutely mortified, then quickly turned and ran away towards the stairs. Who knows, he could be reading this right now! It was a salutory lesson for me though - don't get lost in the moment, be aware of your surroundings at all times and if you're lin London, watch out for the cameras.

And in case you're wondering yes, I did listen at the door myself. But I didn't hear a damned thing.

L.

[JulietH]

Funny you should mention someone getting caught. I turned a corner in a hotel some while back to see a guy hovering outside a door. I retreated, made a lot of noise then came back round to see he was well down the corridor. When I checked the room out myself I could hear nothing but thought he must be on to something to hung around. After quite some time I concluded there was no one in there so made to go to my room. I checked my key then realised I was standing outside my own room (yes I am blonde actually). Now, fess up guys, which one of you was it?

[JohnGypsy]

I don't believe the microphone outside the door or window or through the wall is illegal. My real worry about getting caught is the bad publicity that might result. What would my close family or employers think?

Exactly. I think this is why this guy settled too. It isn't worth the fight to be "legally right" and still have the case be national news and everyone thinks you are a "pervert" for enjoying the sound of others having sex.

Of course, half of the country can read 50 Shades of Grey in public and no one bats an eye! But admit that you like the sound of real people making love and everyone loses their minds!

And in case you're wondering yes, I did listen at the door myself. But I didn't hear a damned thing.

HA!

[Quadrophenia1]

Don't even have to leave the room. If you are being put up in a hotel that hosts a lot of wedding receptions and dance parties, all you have to do is turn your television off around 11pm and you'll hear laughing and couples having a lot of goodtimes fun. Happens a lot at the right places.

[sc0tt-uk]

Don't even have to leave the room. If you are being put up in a hotel that hosts a lot of wedding receptions and dance parties, all you have to do is turn your television off around 11pm and you'll hear laughing and couples having a lot of goodtimes fun. Happens a lot at the right places.

Really? If it was that easy, we'd surely be inundated with awesome recordings.

[LeStanf]

I agree Scott. I think less than one in ten of my catches are through the wall. And despite being in hotels through the Christmas party season I heard nothing.

[JohnGypsy]

I was giving some thought to this while I was away and thought of something else about this specific case that I think is likely important.

I think there is a big difference between placing a recorder somewhere with the hopes of listening in IF something should happen -- and recording what you can clearly hear in the hallway outside.

This guy was the clerk at the hotel -- and these were newlyweds. If he knew that, he may have placed it there with the HOPE that he would be able to record something. As opposed to already hearing them and starting to record (which, in general, is what I would do).

If you could NOT hear that couple in the hallway -- and ONLY under the door after he placed the recorder there -- then I would tend to agree that their right to privacy had been violated.

I see that as quite a bit different from hearing people from the public hallway and then recording that. In this latter case, I don't think their right to privacy has been violated because by being loud enough that people can clearly hear you in a public location, you have clearly given up any concept of "privacy."

So, that might be another reason why he plead this out (although I'm sure the main one was just to avoid embarrassment). I think planting a device to try to listen in to something that you otherwise would not hear in public is quite a bit different than hearing something in public and then deciding to record it.

[findu]

Good points Gipsy.

Contrary to yourself, I do tend to leave recorders out and about hoping I will catch something. Not that I am very successful but walking into some sounds is even more unlikely to happen for me...

Peoples gardens, window sills, hotel hallways...

Where would you stand legally you reckon? I am talking EU/UK here..

[Audio]

JohnGypsy

I agree that this could have make the difference in this legal case. Because he was working there, he would have been able to place the recorder in the antechamber.