help with researching equipment needed

[sc0tt-uk]

hey folks, uncle Sc0tt-uk here with a plea for some assistance.

I've just moved into a new place, and a few listening potentials have presented themselves. There's a couple next door who i'm keeping a close ear on, a girl above me who is apparently terminally single so i'm not expecting much action from there, but most importantly a chick on my other side who is HOT! Now obviously I'll be keeping an ear to the wall wherever possible when her boyfriend stays over (hasn't done yet), but last night whilst walking past her room I swear I heard a vibrator... bingo i thought... but nothing coming through the wall.

Here's where I need your help. I need to find a really really small mic (small so its easy to hide). This mic needs to have a really thin chord (thin so that I can run it in a tiny gap between the carpet and the wall and it won't be noticed). Its not a big stretch from her room to mine even following the scurting... 5M would cover it. The trickiest part is this... I don't have my own computer at the moment to do the research, so if anybody spots any gear that might be good for the job or has a spare few secs to look into this, be sure to let me know what you find. I work completely different hours from this chick and she leaves her room unlocked, so placement and removal should be easy and pretty much risk-free... seems like too good a chance to miss.

[mjj9994]

Hi Scott / Yeppie / Elders and new members! Been out for a while (working)... on holiday now for a bit in Thailand I probably won't have enough time (or bandwidth) to make any posts from here... but have the time to offer some experience...

For your mic problem Scott.... the electet mics I was giving away are probably some of the smallest that you could use. You can either manufacture one yourself (requires a bit of soldering and whatnot)... or just buy one (I believe Sony makes a 'lapel mic' that is even smaller than the ones I have. They come with a 3-5 foot cable). Retail price is around $25 (US) and quality is fairly decent. If you pair that with a Creative Zen Nano or similiar MP3, you should get pretty decent results (you may need to amplify a bit after recording).

Good luck with your hunt.... I will be checking out the board on and off for the next few weeks.... cheers!

P.S. I will be in London on the 23rd of July if you want to meet for coffee or anything... and I have hard copies of all my archives if you are interested in forwarding them to Yeppie / the board for me.

- Mark

[sc0tt-uk]

Hey Mark - good to see you're still with us man!!

Yeah, from a quick look online i came to the conclusion that some sort of lapel mic and running it to a preamp for a bit of extra juice back in my room would be the easiest way to do this. I'll have a look at those electets. In an ideal world I'd like to use a DPA, but it'd be borrowed and I'm not risking a mic that costs that much cos its just my luck i'd get busted lol.

Might be around on the 23rd... it depends where work and gigs take me that week... if I am it'd be cool to hook up. Drop me a PM if you've got a number/email/something I can get hold of you on nearer the time and when I know I'll give you a shout.

[sc0tt-uk]

Just an update on scoping out my new place, and a plea for more help:

So, having found a dinky mic and picked up some seriously thin cable, I don't like the setup. Just ran the cable through to her room, and the signal seems loud and clear, but it gives me the shits that if this were ever discovered the cable leads straight back to my room. I've also got 2 housemates here mostly at the same times as me now, which means that placement and removal has got to be quick and easy when they're out.
That's the bad news. The good news is that one of the girls upstairs was completely hammered at the weekend, and was telling everyone how she's going through a phase of chronic masturbation ... this has to be heard!!

So, with all that in mind, I want to go wireless. FM transmition seems fairly safe, as i've never heard anyone listening to the radio since I've been here. Then again, if i'm gonna do this, I want to do it properly and not get caught lol, so some sort of wireless transmition seems much much safer. That way, there's no lead to my room, placement and removal is quick, and I can use it for more than one room.

So far, all my research is turning up rackmount wireless systems for theaters etc. I'm wondering if anybody knows of a cheaper alternative. Don't mind putting down some money for this as I think it'll be a good investment, but the less the better.

Cheers all
Sc0tt-uk

[mjj9994]

Hey Scott -

Sorry for the laaaaaag, just picked up on this thread (bored at home checking out the past year of posts).

Anywho.. from personal experience... wireless is crap.

I have yet to find a decent setup for the price. I would imagine if you are willing to spend $2000+ (us dollars) for a broadcast-quality rig (like the ones the muscians/tv talk show people clip to the back of their pants), then you would have something worth recording... but

I have purchased 4-5 different video transmitter/receiver setups, ranging from:

1) Cheapo fm-transmitter type transmits plays on fm radio (100mw)
price: $ 10.95
results: works from 3-5 ft, signal goes in and out and no reception at all over 20 ft

2) Some UHF tv-type transmitter from radio shack (unk mw)
price: $60.00
results: I dont even think i used this... was trying for a portable-type device, but as it is uhf, requires old-school tv hook ups and adapters to hook it up to the back of a tv (if the tv is even compatible), and nobody makes connectors for it... think i ended up putting this one in the gaget stockpile

3) Cheapo camera w/ audio connection (10-20mw)
price: $50.00
results: Same as fm-transmitter... only good from 3-5 ft, connection goes fuzzy around 5-10 ft, no reception over 20 ft

4) Higher-end audio/video transmitter (500mw)
price: $120-transmitter $40-receiver
results: a bit better than the fm-transmitter, reception up to maybe 30 ft, but would not broadcast through wall at all. Piddled with it for about an hour, trying various angles, etc... but no-go at further reception. Was a very tiny transmitter (about 1"x2"x.25" or 4cmx8cmx.5cm), and could have been connected to a cardoid mic.... havent played with it since the initial test.

I had size in mind when buying all these.... didnt really want to go any larger than maybe a pack of cigarettes... so I didnt purchase any of the 'more powerful' transmitters (1 watt, 5 watt, etc). If you are shopping for one... take whatever specifications they advertise and divide the minimum by 10 to get the accurate transmitting distance (ie. 2000-3000 ft = 200-300 ft; 300-400 ft = 30-40 ft). This formula would be much closer to the actual useable distance for recording purposes.

Also bear in mind with wireless comes interferance factors, not just cordless devices (cell phones, cordless phones, home wireless networks, etc), but ALL electronic/electric interferance (even trying to record near power lines, phone lines, etc will render interferance).. so if you are in a flat/apartment complex where everyone has a wireless network, uses cordless phones and cell phones, this too will cut transmitting distance even further.

Anywho... all this said... I am sure there ARE some wireless rigs that are very good... unfortunately... they come with a very good sized pricetag. Speaking for myself, I don't think I will be 'throwing any more money' at the cheap wireless setups... and if I get another, will probably be spending the big bucks to get a setup that I could actually use.

- Mark

[PetaJ]

I have read with interest the posts that are goping on here and if I may put my 2 bobs worth in I would like to make a suggestion or four.

Firstly, battery operated recorders are great for one off situations where you can get the gear in and out again. Repeated occassions increase you likelyhood of getting sprung (big time).

Secondly, have you considered the use of a wireless device. They are more permanent and well placed they are almost impossible to find unless you are in the game of knowing what to look for. There are some good 2.4 GHz units that you could use and are not that expensive. Just place them behind a power point... and viola, permanent power and a very well cavity. They need a couple of hours to install and you have to be scroupliously clean when you are finished. Don't fall for the old FM transmitter trick, if they are easy for you to pick up on a simple FM radio, that means it is easier for them to be discovered by the targets. Even an old UHF TV Audio Visual transmitter will do the trick. They are cheap and they need a UHF TV to tune into. By using one of these you can get an old VCR, tune it to the desired channel and there you have it, recording as well. You can even time shift to get them at a known bonking time. Just make sure the frequency is sufficiently low (or High) enough in the band not to be near a local TV station.

Thirdly, have you thought of using a well placed (and long) extension lead on an electret microphone. These can be placed from one wall to the next so you can have your recorder in the adjacent room, and no one will suspect what you are up to, as opposed to actually placing a device in the targets room. This way you can place the recorder on a power supply and not worry about a battery failing.

Lastly, if you still gadget orientated, a modified baby monitor will give good results as well, just cut down the transmitter module to bear bones, stick behind a power point cavity and place the microphone on a short lead to get it in a better listening location. The only down side to this is that if anyone else in the neighbourhood has one of these, they too will get an earfull. The same goes with the units that transmit over the power lines, they can transmit a signal up to 3 or 4 houses way.

Hope this will give you listeners out there some food for thought.

Regards

petaj

Here is a couple of other optiions that you might have a look at that I posted a few weeks back in another thread.

cheers

petaj

[Rograd]

[quote="PetaJ

Those are some great tips, PetaJ. I've been thinking about building something like that for a "special project" of mine; but I need to boost my range. I was toying with either, using a large coil (bare wire just coiled up and attached to the antenna with an alligator clip). Or I've been thinking about a 2nd wire - as thin and small diameter as I can find, that winds it's way from my apartment to near the target area.

[PetaJ]

The length of the antenna depends on the frequency of the system you are using. A longer antenna really does not improve a signal at all unless you are using the FM band. My personal preference is the UHF band 400-500 MHz. The antennnas are a lot smaller and with a bit of care you can get some good gain and some directivity. This frequency penetrates walls very well.

Digital is OK but you need a good strong signal that does not fade, otherwise you get drop out and complete loss.

For devices in this band try something on the amateur band. A few years back the ITU released a number of channels on the 430 MHz band for UHF CB. Some of the units out of china are dirt cheap, run on the smell of an oily rag, and the range is very impressive, as they only have a 100mWatt output.

You will need some expertise in electronics to cut one of these units down for constant transmit, but connected to a fairly decent set of Lith-Ion batteries, this type of setup will give you good range and longivity. Downside is it is bulky and needs carefull planting 'lest it be discovered. Not for your spur of the moment recordings but more of a long term/ long distance device.

[reggind]

If you are even moderately good with electronics, you can make simple FM wireless mic's for just a few bucks. Go for one of the two transistor circuits, with one transistor acting as a mic preamp and the other as the vfo for the transmitter. I got so I could build them so small that the circuit board was smaller than the battery clip.

That is half the story. The next half is finding a decent FM "walkman" type radio.

Now for the fun. Most of the little transmitters are no tune. You tune them by compressing or expanding a little coil of wire in the circuit. Get a feel for this. Slowly tune the transmitter up to the 108 Mhz end of the dial. Than compress the coil a bit more until you can no longer pick it up on the walkman.

Now open the walkman up. Tune it to about the middle of the FM band. Now in the guts of the wallkman you will find a similar coil. Compress that a bit, and tune around. Hopefully all of the stations will have shifted down on the dial. For example 99.3 will not be around 96. Keep tuning around until you pick up your mic. You may need to play with the coil some more on the radio.

The idea here is to make the mic so you can not hear it on an unmodified radio.

Now take the mic and stick it in something that no one in their right mind would want to get their hands in. A plastic diaper bag tied is a good example. No one will ever want to probe through that. Now you can stick that very close to the sound source and know if it is found, it's next home will be the trash. You can also use old styro coffee cups, cigarette packs etc. I like the diaper bags though. They are expected to have some weight to them, and no one will ever open one up. Ever.

I like going just above the FM band because antennas are shorter at higher frequencies. Note that this band is in use, but these are flea powered devices and will only have a range of a couple of blocks. The chances of them being found if only used for a short time are pretty slim.

[sc0tt-uk]

Wow, old thread revival central on here at the moment.

Reggind, I'm not even remotely good with electronics, but thanks for posting that tip for FM tuning. Someone here is bound to find that useful!